Is it possible to accurately shoot a bullet from a double-barreled shotgun? Bullet shooting
One of the disadvantages of double-barreled shotguns is that the average point of impact when shooting a bullet from one barrel(with a constant sight) does not coincide with the average point of impact when firing from another. Sometimes this difference between points is so significant that it must be taken into account when aiming a weapon at a target, even at distances of up to 30 m.
Many hunters, especially beginners, do not quite correctly imagine ballistic Features of a bullet shot from a double-barreled shotgun. Knowing from the literature that the axes of the barrels intersect at a distance of 35 m from the muzzle, and assuming that bullets follow these axes, hunters often blindly rely on the accuracy of shooting at the bar and the front sight. In reality, things don't always happen this way.
At the moment firing a bullet from the right barrel of a gun with horizontal barrels, the direction of the recoil force will act along the axis of the barrel to the rear. And if we mentally extend its direction along the stock, we will see that it is located at the top and to the right of the center of the butt plate opposing it, resting on the shooter’s shoulder. In Fig. Figure 1 shows the direction of forces that lead to the ejection of weapon barrels upward and to the right. Such a change in the direction of the bore axis after a shot is called departure angle. In this case, this angle will not be strictly vertical, but with a lateral deviation.
The picture shows mismatch of bullet holes on the target with the aiming point. To the right of the black circle with a diameter of 10 cm are five holes received when firing from the right barrel; to the left from the left trunk. The distance between the middle points of impact was 28 cm. The sight in both cases was constant: a rear sight with a semicircular slot was installed 15 cm from the breech exactly in the center of the bar; When aiming, the front sight was aimed at the center of the target circle. Shooting was carried out in a closed shooting range at a temperature of +20 C, lying down, from a soft rest at a distance of 50 m from an IZH-58 12-gauge shotgun weighing 3.15 kg. The cartridges were loaded with round bullets weighing 29.3 g and a charge of Sokol gunpowder of 2 g.
The magnitude of lateral deviations during a shot can be greater or less and depends primarily on the quality of the barrels and how they are soldered (at what distance their axes intersect), on the weight of the gun, its balance, the amount of movement of the stock to the side, its length, the thickness of the neck, the power of the cartridge (weight of powder charge and bullet).
Shooting heavier bullets from the same IZH-58 gun weighing 34 g and a Sokol 2.3 g powder charge, we received average hit points from both barrels, located at a distance of 34 cm from each other.
At shooting a bullet from smoothbore shotguns with vertical barrels a slightly different picture is observed. If we mentally extend the directions of recoil forces along the axes of both barrels, we will see that they are located on different distances from the point of application, that is, the center of the butt plate. When firing from the lower barrel (Fig. a), this distance will be smaller, which will lead to a smaller angle of departure. When shooting from the top barrel, the distance will be greater and the angle of departure will be greater. In Fig. shows the location of the holes on the target when shooting from a gun model TOZ-34 weighing 3.1 kg. At the bottom of the black circle there are holes made when shooting from the lower barrel, at the top from the upper one. The shooting conditions, sight installation, distance, charge and cartridge were the same as when shooting from the IZH-58 gun. The distance between the midpoints of the hits was 24 cm.
As can be seen in the figures, the distances between the midpoints of the hits are significant. But it cannot be assumed that every gun will give exactly the same results. shooting a bullet, as shown on the targets. The magnitude of the discrepancies can be larger or smaller; the aiming point may well coincide with the average point of impact when shooting from one barrel and not at all coincide with the average point of impact when shooting from another. There can be as many options as there are guns. Therefore, each gun requires a thorough individual check of the bullet’s impact on several of the most likely ones when hunting large animal distances.
The difficulty is that after checking the action of your gun and making sure that the average point of impact when firing from one or both barrels does not coincide with the aiming point, you are powerless to do anything to eliminate this shortcoming. To eliminate it, the barrels need to be resoldered with great skill, which, perhaps, not a single gunsmith will undertake, since he cannot guarantee a successful final result. The only thing left for the hunter is to shoot with adjustments, which, you see, is very inconvenient. Some hunters partially solved this problem in the following way. The gun is equipped with a homemade quick-detachable front sight and sight, in which the aiming point coincides with the midpoint of impact of one of the barrels. This allows you to fire the first shot most accurately, but the second has to be made with the correction that extreme conditions it doesn't always work out.
A similar deficiency must be eliminated in factories producing weapons. The midpoints of impact when firing from both barrels must coincide with the aiming point. Otherwise, the weapon simply should not go on sale. Each hunting rifle must be carefully tested by shooting at a factory shooting range with a certain series of bullet cartridges. Perfectly suited for this Polev's bullet, which gives the smallest dispersion diameter, namely, when shooting at a distance of 50 m from a barrel with a drill, the dispersion of bullets on the target does not, as a rule, exceed a diameter of 10 cm; when shooting from a choke, 15 cm. This means that the total dispersion diameter of bullets when firing from both trunks Polev's bullet at the specified distance should not exceed 15 cm, and the aiming point should coincide with the middle point of impact. If the shooting results meet these requirements, the target with the shooting results must be filed in the rifle passport. If the results do not meet the requirements, then the barrels must be re-soldered.
According to hunting literature, our hunting double-barreled shotguns are suitable for both shot and bullet shooting. But in practice it is obvious that they are still more suitable for shooting shotguns and much less bullet. But in terms of its significance, collective hunts for large animals are more responsible than hunts using shotguns. The quality of double-barreled shotguns as bullet weapons clearly leaves much to be desired. I affirm this not only based on the results of shooting personal weapons. Often you have to help choosing guns young hunters, and then shoot them at the shooting range. Sometimes you have to examine five-eight guns in order to choose one that is more or less suitable for shooting bullets with barrels.
It is necessary to say something about excessively tight efforts triggers. The literature indicates the following trigger forces for hunting rifles: for the front 1.5-1.7 kg, for the rear 1.7 - 1.9 kg. In fact, most standard shotguns have trigger pulls in excess of 2 kg. You can find trigger forces of 3 kg, which is completely unacceptable. Such efforts, with a big stretch, can be useful when shooting with shot, in which you can pull trigger, but still hit the target due to the wide scree of the shot shell. When shooting with bullets, pressing the trigger takes on a completely different meaning. The pressure must be correct, namely such that the aim of the weapon at the target is not lost. Hunters are familiar with this feeling when the weapon is confidently held at the aiming point, but as soon as you start to pull the trigger, it begins to make sharp fluctuations, during which it is pointless to shoot.
The increased interest of hunters in round-up hunts for large animals should contribute to the creation of more advanced models of weapons and ammunition. New successful types of bullets intended for shotguns, a clear confirmation of this. I wanted the gunsmiths, not relying on all sorts of tolerances, to say their weighty word. First of all, you need to take into account the conditions under which hunting takes place in our country. And if abroad not only large, but also medium-sized species of game animals are shot with rifled weapons, then here for the vast majority of hunters such hunting is possible only with the use of smooth-bore weapons.
Why can’t the smooth-bore gun available to us be made more perfect for shooting bullets?
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Any hunter strives to ensure that his shot is accurate, that the projectile fired from the gun reaches the target, and that the desired trophy, for which a lot of effort has been spent, ends up in the hands. Therefore, you should prepare especially carefully for such a climactic moment of the hunt. It is training at the appropriate level that will ensure success in the field. The components of this preparation are not only the hunter’s theoretical knowledge and shooting skills, it is also necessary to know the natural features of the land and the biology of the game that is supposed to be hunted.The hunter must have a good understanding of hunting weapons and know their capabilities. In addition, you need reliable ammunition that you can rely on at the most crucial moment of hunting game, when end result It just depends on your shot.
Considering the above, you are well aware of how important a bullet shot is when hunting ungulates, where a miss is simply unacceptable. On a collective hunt, the shot is the last decisive point of a huge work; it determines what the result will be - positive or negative.
Interest in the bullet shot has always existed. Remember the work of S. Buturlin “Shooting with a bullet. Hunting bullet weapon." In this book, published a hundred years ago, the author comprehensively examines the issue of a bullet shot in accordance with the knowledge and technical level of his time. Hunters, contemporaries of Buturlin, used bullets that had long since moved away in shape from their predecessor - the round bullet. The French J-B bullet and its Russian analogue"lot", as well as bullets equipped with a stabilizer, which were later defined as arrow-type bullets. These are bullets from Witzleben, Brenneke, and Prince Shirinsky-Shakhmatov.
The eternal desire to hit a target as accurately as possible with bullet ammunition with smooth trunk pushed inventors to search for a more advanced solution to the design of the bullet and the shape of its body, which would provide higher ballistic performance. Developers began to use new promising materials that differ from traditional ones. A similar trend is observed now. View only periodicals over the past decades, both domestic and foreign, weapons and hunting sites on the Internet and you will see that the issue of a bullet shot is of interest to many, and the improvement of bullets for smooth-bore hunting rifles continues. In addition, this process has many positive results. Shot quality smoothbore bullet in terms of accuracy of hitting a target these days it has reached quite high level and almost came close to the results of rifled weapon bullets.
Inventors and hunters in Russia and the USA made a great contribution to improving the smoothbore bullet shot, since in these rich countries various types fauna, hunting is very popular, unlike the countries of the Old World, where the population density is quite high, and therefore the anthropological factor influences wildlife much stronger.
It was in the USA and Russia that promising sub-caliber bullets appeared, launched in serial production. They quickly became popular among hunters due to their advantages - less loss of speed and energy during flight along the trajectory, that is, they have a longer direct shot distance, and therefore, higher accuracy in hitting the target.
In addition to the shape and design of the bullet, the quality of the shot is affected by the way the cartridge is loaded, as well as the materials used for this. It is well known that only high quality ammunition and uniformity of equipment will give a high-quality cartridge with the desired high characteristics.
According to modern legislation, individual shooting of stags (males of the deer family) can begin in May. However, hunters can carry out this shooting using rifled weapons. But in a collective hunt for an animal, without a doubt, rifled weapons are inferior to smooth-bore weapons in many factors. This large mass bullets, the ability of a smooth-bore weapon to fire a shot with a release thanks to its sighting devices, as well as the speed and range of a projectile that is less than that of a rifled weapon, which has a positive effect on the safety of hunting in densely populated areas.
Smooth-bore weapons are suitable for use during summer individual hunts, taking into account the capabilities of smooth-bore bullets in terms of accurate shot range. A long-range bullet shot for a smooth barrel is considered to be a distance that exceeds 50 m, that is, a shot at 70-100 m. A distance of 50 m is accepted regulatory documents on testing smooth-bore bullet ammunition for accuracy in hitting a target.
Let's consider the range of a shot using the example of the capabilities of a conventional spherical bullet. It is dangerous with its ricochets in collective hunts, but is quite effective in individual hunts. Shooting a sub-caliber round bullet (this is exactly the kind that can be shot from barrels with constrictions) with a conventional cartridge load does not give high results in terms of accuracy in hitting a target. The fact is that a sub-caliber round bullet, when passing along the barrel bore, is not centered along its longitudinal axis; moreover, having caught on the wall of the barrel bore and turning around along it, the bullet acquires a rotational movement, and, having left the barrel cut and collided with dense layers air, it rolls along them away from the desired trajectory line.
By using such methods of equipment, in which the bullet will move exclusively along the axis of the barrel, and without allowing the possibility of its rotation, you can achieve a fairly good result in the range of accurate hitting of the target.
One of these methods was once proposed by Keller. It consists of using a homemade container in the form of a strip of paper with wooden centering ribs glued to it. An even more original solution for equipping a sub-caliber round bullet was proposed by A. Kolesnikov. He recommended placing the bullet in a plastic container-glass and sprinkling it with small dry sawdust hardwood trees. Well-compacted shavings should envelop the ball from all sides. According to Kolesnikov’s proposal, cardboard pads are placed on the gunpowder, and a wood-fiber wad is placed on them, on which the container is installed. The developer emphasizes that with such equipment the bullet has a good trajectory extension and at a distance of 50 and 100 m the aiming points coincide.
M. Blum, commenting on the method of equipping Kolesnikov, recalls the experience of Krasnoyarsk hunters who have long been equipping 32-caliber cartridges with round bullets using sawdust and have achieved remarkable results. At a distance of 100-150 m, the bullets are placed in the aiming area.
Sawdust in such a cartridge with a sub-caliber bullet not only centers it along the axis of the channel while moving along it, they also act as a shock absorber during a sharp increase in pressure at the moment of ignition of the gunpowder. In addition, the sawdust evenly distributes pressure over the surface of the bullet, that is, it reduces the possibility of deformation of the bullet body and completely eliminates the possibility of its rotation.
Maintaining the correct spherical shape of the bullet is very important. For a deformed bullet, the points on its surface are at different distances from the center of gravity, which means that eccentricity occurs and the air flows around the bullet body unevenly. To visually feel this, remember how a lead bullet of conventional equipment is deformed.
With this method of equipment, using a plastic seal instead of cardboard spacers, and replacing the wood-fiber wad with the main one - a lubricated, cross-cut felt wad, we will only improve the quality of the shot. The use of two shutters, between which the main felt wad is located, makes it possible to practically prevent the release of powder gases and contributes to a slight increase in the initial speed. So, with a round bullet it is quite possible to make a very accurate shot that hits a target beyond a distance of 100 m.
IN Soviet times the hunter had no doubt which gun to take for hunting, for example, a wild boar or other ungulate animal: almost all hunters had the right to own only smooth-bore guns. Then the laws became more tolerant - and rifled weapons appeared on sale, and the assortment was so wide in calibers, models, and prices that it was easy to get confused.
Now practically no one has any doubts - for hunting ungulates it is better to use rifled weapons. This does not mean at all that smooth-bore guns are not used for bullet hunting. And for the price, rifled weapons really bite. And there are many hunters who do not want to part with their lucky guns, often improved independently, in particular, with a homemade “paradox” drill. But what can you do - today domestic factories do not produce weapons with such improved barrels, and you will not find replaceable rifled chokes anywhere.
Nozzle with drill "paradox"
In accordance with the legislation of many countries, including Russia and the USA, the length of the rifled part must be less than 14 cm - only this weapon is classified as a smooth-bore weapon.
Drilling "supra"
But cunning American hunters figured out how to circumvent the law, namely, “supra” drilling. Why Americans? The fact is that they only allow hunting for trophy deer with a smoothbore gun. Yes, they prohibit the use of rifled weapons almost everywhere - only in specially designated hunting grounds.
Drilling "supra"
So, a gun with a “supra” drilling does not look at all different from a regular smooth-bore gun, or rather, it is what it is, but in terms of the bore it is a very high-quality rifled gun.
Such a weapon is called a sluggan (from English word slug - bullet). In the USA, pump-action shotguns and semi-automatic machines are mainly improved in this way, and semi-automatic machines do not lose their versatility since replaceable chokes with “supra” drilling are manufactured at the factory. And for those who like to hunt with a carbine, “syupra” is additionally made for bolt-action shotguns and single-shot guns. But we digress.
The subtleties of shooting from guns with a drill
Many of our craftsmen have already mastered the “Syupra”, but few know the intricacies of shooting with it. It is already clear from the very characteristics and capabilities of homemade rifled weapons that they guarantee high shooting accuracy, unattainable for smooth-bore weapons, and the destruction range is many times greater. Main feature smoothbore shotguns for firing bullets - the “barrel/cartridge” complex forms an inextricable whole. Almost all modern round bullets for smoothbore shotguns with a “supra” drill are not suitable for shooting.
Or rather, you can shoot, but at distances greater than 50 m, the accuracy drops sharply. Plus - the bullet's ejection leads to very strong squirting of the barrel. Therefore, for use with such drilling it is necessary to take special bullets; in the domestic version, the most suitable are Polev bullets. They do not allow douching, since they are in a plastic container and the bullet itself does not come into contact with the barrel channel, but plastic runs along the rifling. And the effective firing range is 125 m, which is quite enough for driven hunts and hunting from a tower and even allow you to go on an individual hunt for ungulates.
Capabilities of improved shotguns
Some foreign manufacturers They produce special 12-gauge cartridges for Supra drilling, equipped with .45 and .50 bullets in containers with thick walls. According to the manufacturers, their ballistic characteristics confirm an effective range of 200 m! Such cartridges belong to the super-premium class. Of course, when hunting, shooting at such exorbitant distances would be stupid, but at 130-150 it’s quite possible.
Self-clamping chuck for drilling "supra"
At the same time, the key to a successful shot is not so much in the weapon and cartridge, but in how familiar the hunter is with the capabilities of such a tandem.
Naturally, at such a distance you cannot do without a scope. The most suitable ones are with a variable multiplicity of 1-4. At lower values, the field of view does not narrow, and an increase of 4 times is enough for an accurate aimed shot at a wild boar or roe deer at 140-150 and even 160 m. Even at long distances, this magnification is not enough. It is necessary to take with a multiplicity of 2-7. Preference should be given to a scope with maximum aperture, that is, with a lens diameter of at least 30 mm. In addition, a scope for such a case (12 gauge) must have sufficient eye relief - the eyes will be healthier.
Cartridges from different manufacturers with different types of bullets have different ballistic characteristics.
Therefore, when choosing what you will shoot with when hunting ungulates, and this is a very important undertaking, buy different types of cartridges and carry out a test shooting.
This will help you choose the optimal brand and clarify the effectiveness of shooting with them. This could be the basis of your best trophy.
Despite the fact that the main purpose of smoothbore hunting rifles is to shoot shotgun shells, many hunters also use them to shoot bullets. Before proceeding to the problem of bullet shooting from smoothbore guns, we note fundamental difference between shot and bullet shots, as well as the difference between shooting a bullet from a rifled and smooth barrel.
When shot with shot (buckshot), a shot shell flying in the air occupies a certain volume, and game that is within its frontal area can be hit by one or more individual pellets. The extensive striking area of a shotgun shot allows for some error in aiming and deviation of the center of the aiming point scree. This circumstance is taken into account in the current standards that define the requirements for shot shooting accuracy. Thus, GOST 18406-79 "Double-barreled smoothbore hunting shotguns. General technical requirements" - allows deviation of the center of the shotgun shell from the aiming point at a distance of 35 m no more than: up - 150 mm, down - 50 mm, to the right - 75 mm, to the left - 75 mm.
A bullet shot is a shot with a point, single projectile, which must hit a very limited area killing place game. Consequently, when firing a bullet, any significant deviation of the point of impact from the aiming point is unacceptable. Therefore, weapons intended for bullet shooting are subject to fairly strict requirements for shooting accuracy. Naturally, high shooting accuracy is ensured not only by the combat qualities of the weapon. In the created “cartridge-weapon” complex, the following characteristics are closely interconnected: cartridge, bullet, its shape, weight characteristics, alignment, as well as intra-ballistic characteristics - gunpowder, density of equipment, developed pressure of powder gases, as well as weapon characteristics - barrel bore design, its length , diameter, number, depth and pitch of rifling. Typically, a cartridge is created first that meets certain ballistic characteristics, and then a weapon is designed to fire that cartridge. The designs of weapons and their mechanisms can be very diverse, but the design of the barrel bore for a given cartridge is uniform. Therefore, the quality of manufactured cartridges is assessed by shooting not from a weapon, but from a ballistic barrel installed in a special “Jaspar” type machine with recoil.
Depending on the quality of the manufactured weapon - the accuracy of the bore, perfection sighting devices etc. The correspondence of the external ballistic characteristics of the shot to the external ballistic characteristics of the cartridges also depends. Taking into account that in production conditions certain manufacturing inaccuracies are inevitable, the magnitude and spread of which depend on the perfection of technology, equipment, production culture and the conceptual approach to quality issues in a given production, the requirements for the accuracy of shooting from a weapon differ from those provided by the cartridge when shooting from a ballistic barrel. For example, the 5.6 mm Bars hunting cartridge with a high initial velocity of 5.6 mm provides a dispersion diameter of no more than 55 mm when shooting at a distance of 100 m, and hunting rifle"Bars", designed to fire the same cartridge, has a dispersion diameter at a distance of 100 m of about 75 mm. Hunting cartridge with a semi-jacketed bullet of 9 mm caliber when firing at a distance of 100 m provides an average dispersion diameter of no more than 80 mm, and the Los carbine, designed for firing with the same cartridge, has an average dispersion diameter at a distance of 100 m of no more than 110 mm.
With some difference in shooting accuracy provided when firing a bullet from ballistic weapons, and the one that has a rifled hunting weapon, manufactured under production conditions, ensures a confident hit and defeat of game.
We see a completely different picture in the case of firing a bullet from a smooth-bore weapon. In accordance with TU 84-596-75 “Hunting bullet cartridges of 12, 16 and 20 calibers”, the dispersion diameter of a series of 10 bullets at a distance of 45 m should not exceed 600 mm for Brenneke-type turbo rifle bullets; Mayer turbine type 500 mm; pointer type "VVOO-I" 500 mm and round type "Sputnik" for 12 gauge 800 mm and for 16 and 20 gauge - 700 mm. If we assume that the average point of impact is located in the center of the circle of possible dispersion, coinciding with the aiming point, and this is the case if the weapon is brought to normal combat, then according to TU 84-596-75 the position is considered normal when at a distance of 45 m, the bullet hole may be at a distance of 300 - 400 mm from the aiming point. One cannot count on successful hunting under such conditions. Considering that the bullet is usually used when hunting large, and sometimes dangerous beast, such a hunt becomes very dangerous for the hunter himself.
Let's consider the main reasons for the unsatisfactory accuracy of shooting bullets from smoothbore hunting rifles, having previously noted two very important facts that are present when firing from a rifled barrel:
- the first - the bullet, moving along the rifling of the barrel bore, acquires a rotational motion around the longitudinal axis, causing a gyroscopic moment, ensuring its stable flight in the air with the head part in the direction of flight with a decreasing angle of deviation of the longitudinal axis of the bullet from the tangent to the trajectory of the center of gravity;
- the second - after the bullet leaves the muzzle, only powder gases flow out of the barrel, which for some time, during the aftereffect period, has an accelerating effect on the flight of the bullet.
Non-deformable bullet designed by Rubeykin 1.5 m from the muzzle.
There is a head ballistic wave in front of the bullet, a container flying backwards behind
Bullet "Kirovchanka" 1.5 m from the muzzle. One half of the container flies in front, the second behind next to the bullet,
inclined to the flight line at approximately 45 degrees
A bullet leaving the muzzle of a hunting shotgun has no rotational motion around the longitudinal axis and does not have gyroscopic stability. Following it, not only powder gases fly out of the barrel bore, but also gaskets and wads, which during the aftereffect period inflict a blow that is inconsistent in strength and erratic in direction. tail section bullets, destabilizing its already unstable position on the trajectory. Therefore, as a rule, after being fired from a smooth-bore hunting rifle, bullets fly, one might say, head over heels, which is confirmed by many photographs of their flight and the nature of the holes on the targets.
Developers of bullets for hunting rifles are trying to solve the problem of their stability in two ways. The first is to give the bullet a sweep by making the head heavier and lengthening the lighter tail, but in a short bullet, the length of which is almost equal to the diameter, it is quite difficult to create any noticeable sweep. The desire to achieve sweep at all costs led to the appearance of sub-caliber bullets, whose length is increased by reducing their diameter. A typical example of such a bullet is the “Kirovchanka”. The second way involves ensuring stability by creating a gyroscopic moment that occurs during rapid rotation of the bullet, i.e. use the method used in rifled weapons. To cause the bullet to rotate, the developers of such bullets, called turbine, place protruding ribs (blades) on the outer forming surfaces and inside the through channels at an angle to the longitudinal axis, which, under the influence of the oncoming air flow, should cause the bullet to rotate. The uselessness of the outer ribs for this purpose is obvious, since the head of the bullet throws it to the sides air flow cannot have any effect on the ribs located in the aerodynamic shadow. The rifled look that bullets with external ribs have can only seduce a gullible buyer.
It is impossible to say anything definite about the effectiveness of the ribs located inside the end-to-end internal channels without special research. But even if we assume that they are capable of causing a bullet to rotate, then for this it is necessary that it fly for quite a considerable distance in a position in which its longitudinal axis strictly coincides with the direction of flight, i.e. it must be stable at the initial, most unfavorable part of the path. The fact that 50 m is clearly not enough for spin is shown by an elementary calculation: at a distance of 50 m, a column of air weighing about 3 g will pass through the internal channel of the Mayer bullet, the diameter of which is 8 mm, the energy of which is not enough to cause rotation with a bullet weighing 30-35 g at high speed. With such a ratio of masses (and therefore energies), the air jet passing through the channel will be driven into rotation; the bullet itself along this path will not be able to acquire rapid rotation, at which any significant gyroscopic moment will appear .
In addition, designers, when developing a particular bullet, present it in flight in the form in which it appears in the drawing, without taking into account the changes that will occur in it during the shot. This especially applies to bullets made from lead and its alloys, which are almost all bullets used in smoothbore weapons. Lead is used for several reasons. Soft lead allows you to protect the walls of the channel from damage when a bullet slides along it and protect the barrel from swelling or rupture in the choke area due to the slight deformability of the bullet itself in it. In addition, the high specific density of lead contributes to the conservation of high kinetic energy in flight, and the deformation of the bullet upon impact with the target increases its stopping effect.
During a shot at the maximum value of the boost pressure, the bullet experiences, like a shot shell, a huge overload as a result of acceleration during acceleration, leading to the loss of its original shape, and consequently, the loss of its aerodynamic qualities that were built into the design.
1a and 1b - Mayer bullet, side and top view before firing
2a and 2b - the same after the shot
3a - "Kirovchanka" bullet before, and
3b - after the shot
4 - Sputnik bullet after firing
The picture shows Mayer, Kirovchanka and Sputnik bullets before and after they were fired from an Izh-27E gun. The shooting was carried out at the end of winter on the deep, loose snow cover of the shooting track of the testing laboratory. The braking path of bullets in the snow was approximately 40-70m. In the spring, due to the melting of the snow, the bullets dropped to the ground and were picked up. Thus, these samples can be considered “virgin”, i.e. having no additional damage after leaving the barrel from contact with obstacles.
Let's look at what happened to these bullets during the firing process.
The Mayer bullet can be considered as a tube of variable cross-section, the front part of which is made more massive than the rear to give it sweep. This made it possible, with a total bullet length of 21.7 mm, to locate its center of gravity at a distance of 9.1 mm from the front end, i.e. slightly closer to the geometric center. As a result of the overload, which exceeded 45,000 G at the initial moment of the shot, the body of the bullet, which became heavier by the same amount, settled on the lighter rear part. Lead, which is characterized by weak adhesion between individual grains, exhibited hard fluidity under such overload and filled the intercostal depressions that existed on external generatrix surface, forming a smooth cylindrical surface with a wavy fringe at the rear end, the number of waves of which corresponds to the number of ribs present. The internal canal has turned into an almost blind cone with remnants of ribs in the form of wrinkled folds indeterminate form. The bullet length was reduced to 13.5 mm, i.e. by 38%. As a result of the redistribution of mass, the center of gravity shifted back and ended up at a distance of 5.5 mm from the rear end. Thus, the bullet acquired a backward sweep and the most unfavorable aerodynamic shape, in which it would inevitably turn over and fly head over heels. The Kirovchanka bullet, which was in a container that acted as a rigid corset, retained a semblance of its original shape, but the deformation not only reduced the ballistic coefficient - the main ballistic characteristic of a bullet, which determines the ability of a given bullet to overcome air resistance during flight - but also, most importantly, deprived it of its main advantage: sweep. Some of the lead moved (flowed) from the head to the tail, pushing out the plastic liner intended to lighten the tail. Before the shot, the center of gravity was at a distance of 17 mm from the rear end, and after the shot at a distance of 11.4 mm, i.e. the bullet now has a backward sweep, in which an inversion and subsequent somersault are inevitable. The Sputnik bullet loses its shape as a regular ball. The back side becomes flatter, and in cross section its size is equal to the diameter of the bore. The asymmetry of the shape of the deformed Sputnik bullet creates the prerequisites for the appearance of lateral aerodynamic forces during flight in the air, capable of deflecting it from the ballistic trajectory in any direction, however, the shape of the bullet in comparison with others remained the most streamlined, and therefore, causing less air resistance, it retains the reserve of kinetic energy obtained as a result of the shot longer.
During the research, other samples of lead bullets were tested, including BS bullets (Sokolov brothers), bullets sent by one of the hunters, which were a cylinder with a helical blade located in a through internal channel, as well as the Vyatka bullet. The results are clearly visible in the photographs. The BS bullet is of the turbine type and has a structure that is difficult to manufacture, consisting of a central rod around which there is a massive ring connected to it by six thin bridges located obliquely to the longitudinal axis, which are turbine blades. The rear part of the central rod passes into a cone-shaped shank, between the surface of which and the ring there is a gap for the exit of air jets from the turbine. A felt wad is attached to the rear end of the bullet. During a shot, as a result of the resulting overload, the ring, weighing about 12 grams, turns into a body with an inertial mass of over 500 kgf, and, crushing the jumpers, sits tightly on the shank cone. The central rod also sits under an increase of 45 thousand times own weight. As a result of deformation, the complex spatial structure of the bullet turns into a streamlined, randomly flying piece of lead.
As a result of the shot, a bullet with a helical blade in the channel settles onto a thinner tail section and the internal channel is completely closed.
The transformation taking place with the Vyatka bullet is visible in the photograph. The bullet body is deposited on a plastic wad-shutter, and lateral ribs, designed to stabilize the flight of the bullet, disappeared. All that was left of them were small protrusions around the wad's skirt.
1a - before and 1b - after firing the “BS” bullet. Experimental bullet with a spiral blade in the internal channel
2a and 2b - before and 2c and 2d - after the shot
Bullet "Vyatka", 3a - before and 3b - after the shot
4 - “Vyatka” bullet after firing from a cartridge loaded without the use of a powder wad gasket
The figure shows the "Vyatka" bullet after being fired with a cartridge in which there was no felt wad or spacer under the bullet. This is how some hunters load cartridges, believing that the plastic wad attached to the bullet is sufficient. With such equipment, the skirt of the skirt, pressed high pressure powder gases to the walls of the cartridge case, almost completely breaks away from the shank, and the hot powder gases that broke into the head of the bullet burned a decent hole in it, at the same time melting the rod on which the seal is put on.
During research carried out in the factory laboratory, in addition to determining the degree of deformation when firing cartridges with different ballistic characteristics, the dependence of the initial velocities and dispersion diameters of bullets on the magnitude of deformation was also determined. Most full research were made with Sputnik and Mayer bullets, for which specially equipped cartridges were used, which developed an average maximum pressure of powder gases in the chambers of the barrels from 470 to 1144 kgf/cm2.
The cartridges, identically equipped with each bullet, were subjected to the following tests: firing from a ballistic barrel with a series of 10 shots to determine the average maximum pressure (P max. Avg.) and the speed of the bullet at 10 m from the muzzle (V10 avg.);
- shooting from gun barrels a series of 10 shots to determine V10 avg. Here and in other cases, shooting was carried out from barrels with a length of 725 mm - cylinder and 695 mm choke - 0.8 mm;
- two shots each from barrels 200 mm long into a braking medium made of foam rubber with gauze scraps to obtain bullets with a degree of deformation characteristic of this equipment;
- shooting at a target installed at a distance of 50 m in three series of 5 shots each to determine the average diameter of bullet dispersion.
Double definition V10 avg. was carried out in order to check what effect the difference in the sizes of the channels of the ballistic and rifle barrels could have on the value of the initial velocity. The ballistic barrel has a strictly cylindrical channel with a diameter of 18.53 mm, and gun barrel The 12 gauge has a bore diameter of 18.2 to 18.6 mm. In addition, the technology for manufacturing rifle barrels is such that the channel in the finished barrel always has a small, within tolerance, taper with the apex facing towards the muzzle.
The choice to obtain samples of deformed bullets from a 200 mm barrel was made after special research, in which it was found that the process of bullet deformation practically ends on the way in a channel 150-200 mm long. Further deformation from overload is not observed, it is balanced by the resistance of the material, but can occur for other reasons, in particular during the passage of choke constrictions, if any, or as a result of friction against the walls of the barrel.
The photograph shows a Mayer bullet after being fired from a 72 mm long barrel, i.e. practically out of the chamber. The diameter of the bullet is 21.45 mm, which is 1.1 mm larger than the hole from which it flew. This increase in diameter occurred outside the barrel under the influence of overload as a result of the acceleration imparted to the bullet during the aftereffect period by the powder gases escaping after it at enormous speed. The longitudinal compression of the bullet was facilitated by the fact that the absence of walls did not prevent its free radial expansion.
The results of research, during which over one and a half thousand shots were fired with different bullets and cartridges various equipment, of which about a thousand shots were fired only to determine the dispersion values, allow us to assert that the large dispersion of bullets when firing from smooth-bore guns is not related to the design and deformation of the bullets. The dispersion of bullets, which does not have any pattern, is caused mainly by lateral impulses of different magnitude and direction received by bullets during the aftereffect of powder gases, as well as sideward components of aerodynamic drag that arise during the flight of bullets.
It is believed that for successful hunting and reliable destruction of game, the dispersion diameter should not exceed 100 mm at a distance of 50 m. Not a single series of studies produced a result that satisfied this condition.
The studies, the results of which are given above, were carried out by employees of the factory laboratory; tests of sports and hunting equipment and a report on them were published in the journal "Hunting and Hunting" (N 9, 1982).
In 1983, the engineer of the Kirov Plant of Hunting and Fishing Equipment of the Rosokhotrybolovsoyuz, V.V. Polev, contacted the plant with a request to test a new bullet he had developed and manufactured for shooting from smooth-bore hunting rifles, in which the inevitable deformation of the lead bullet is used to firmly secure it to the wad. stabilizer.
Cartridge equipped with a Polev bullet (sectional view)
1 - bullet head
2 - neck in front of the wad-stabilizer
3 - aerodynamic fins
4 - powder charge
5 - annular gap between the bullet head, the wad-stabilizer and the container filled with the bullet material during its deformation
6 - wad stabilizer
7 - sleeve
Polev's bullet, which had the original name "Victoria", consists of three parts: the bullet itself, made of lead alloy, which is a mushroom-shaped body of rotation; a stabilizer wad made of plastic (high-density polyethylene), in the front cylindrical part of which there is a blind hole for the central bullet rod. There is a groove in front of the front end on the outer diameter, which, when filled with bullet material during its deformation during firing, ensures a strong mutual connection. The rear part, the diameter of which is equal to the inner diameter of the sleeve, begins with eight protrusions, one of the faces of which is located obliquely to the longitudinal axis of the part, and the other is parallel to it. The back-facing wall of the depressions is cone-shaped. At the back end there is a fitted skirt; a container consisting of two halves is put on the bullet and inserted into the cartridge case when loaded. Inside the container there is a discharge into which the bullet head is placed. The thickened lower part serves as a support in the ribs of the wad-stabilizer and, in addition, serves to use the deformation of the bullet skirt to secure the container and direct the shift of the bullet material inward, into the groove of the wad-stabilizer.
By experimental shooting from a ballistic barrel with variously loaded cartridges, equipment elements were selected that ensured the greatest compliance with the requirements for bullet flight speed and the average maximum pressure of powder gases: “Falcon” gunpowder 2.2 g; capsule "Zhevelo-M"; plastic sleeve. Cartridges with such equipment had the following ballistic characteristics: P max. Wed. -698.4 kgf/cm2 V10 avg. -426.72 m/s.
The final results obtained during testing of V. Polev’s bullets are as follows:
Polev bullet: on the left before loading into the cartridge (half of the container has been removed); on the right is a view of the bullet after being fired
The conclusions about the test results of Polev's bullets note their significant advantage in comparison with all known bullets intended for use in smooth-bore hunting weapons when hunting large animals. An important advantage of this bullet, in addition to high shooting accuracy, is the ability to retain the reserve of kinetic energy obtained during the shot, due to less air resistance. In comparative tests with measurements of flight speeds at 10 and 50 m from the muzzle, Mayer’s bullet at an initial speed of V10 avg. =379.5 m/s, after 40 m of flight it lost 84.5 m/s, while Polev’s bullet, which had initial speed V10 avg. =427 m/s, at 50 m it had a speed of 348 m/s. Multiple photographs of the pop of Polev's bullet at various distances from the muzzle confirmed its excellent stability. A photograph taken during testing of the Polev bullet at the State Testing Station in 1988 shows the position of the bullet after being fired at a distance of 10 m from the muzzle. The report on these tests, published in the magazine "Hunting and Hunting" (N9, 1988), emphasizes that "... the results of tests and calculations indicate the highest qualities of the Polev bullet, its superiority over many other bullets."
Polev's bullet in flight 10 m from the muzzle. In front of the bullet there is a head ballistic wave, behind there is a zone of vortices
Thus, hunters who use smooth-bore hunting weapons for hunting large-hoofed and predatory animals prefer to use the best available - Polev bullets, the author of which continues to work on their further improvement both in terms of accuracy and killing efficiency.
N.L. Izmetinsky, L.E. Mikhailov
"Izhevsk guns. Izhevsk weapons(volume 1)"
Izhevsk, Udmurt University Publishing House, 1995
freeride 23-06-2008 01:03
Uv. Gentlemen, please tell me from which choke it is better (correct) to shoot a bullet, choke or poluchok.
Petrus 23-06-2008 06:06
what kind of bullet is the same constriction. you need to see if the body of the bullet passes through the muzzle constriction... if it passes, you can shoot. no - it's better not to take risks. In general, any sub-caliber bullet can be fired from a choke - that’s why it’s a sub-caliber bullet. In general, the instructions for equipping a bullet say what kind of narrowing is acceptable...
quote: (more correct)
and which one will fly better is more correct.
Maxim V 23-06-2008 08:42
quote: check or pay
It doesn’t matter, it’s a matter of habit, I always shoot with a bullet from a choke.
oleg7213 24-06-2008 12:22
In general, any sub-caliber bullet can be fired from a choke - that’s why it’s
Not quite like that. The sub-caliber simply allows firing with a muzzle narrowing of up to 1 mm. The main purpose is different.
Maxim V 24-06-2008 12:29
quote: Not quite like that. The sub-caliber simply allows shooting with a muzzle narrowing of up to 1 mm
If you shoot a 16 cal bullet with a 12 cal, then up to 1.25 mm is possible.
oleg7213 24-06-2008 12:35
It is possible with some caliber ones, but the sub-caliber bullet came into the smoothbore from military artillery and the main purpose is higher speed and penetration power with the same barrels and charges.
Petrus 24-06-2008 03:39
Also, some caliber guns can be fired from a choke... they just have ribs that are crushed by the choke during a shot... the main thing is that the body of the bullet passes through the choke...
GPMS 25-06-2008 19:10
And I have one barrel... a cylindrical drill, I don’t bother with anything at all
ev011 26-06-2008 21:00
If the barrel has replaceable chokes, then see the instructions for the gun. But if the barrel has a fixed choke, then it doesn’t matter, as long as it shoots accurately. The only condition for the Polev bullet is that it flies better from a full choke.
Ky3much 29-06-2008 15:21
THE HEAT OF THE BULLET I.E. IT (LEAD PART) PASSES BUT THERE IS NO ABTURATOR
Kuzya 03-07-2008 02:03
Estimate the pressure
If lead settles there, then what good is polyethylene?
oleg_r 13-08-2008 12:09
Caliber bullet "Gualandi".
This bullet belongs to the arrow-turbine type bullets. It has a heavy head and a light stabilizer shank, which is also a shutter that prevents the bullet from tipping over and tumbling in the air.
The Gualandi bullet has 2 spiral ribs on the sides, as well as 2 leading bands, thanks to which it is well centered in the barrel. The bands in the choke are easily crimped, and the bullet receives an accurate direction without creating a danger to the barrel. The front driving belt has a diameter of 18.5 mm, the rear - 17.5 mm, the diameter of the bullet body - 15 mm.
The bullet is a penetrating bullet, made of a lead alloy of increased hardness. The bullet can be used in guns with a muzzle narrowing of up to 1 mm inclusive.
oleg_r 13-08-2008 12:18
Since I prefer this company, the information is from their website.
http://www.glavpatron.ru/prod.php?l=1&part=12
For the 76 chamber the pressure is allowed up to 918 bar, so draw your own conclusions.
Tests were carried out using a ballistic barrel with the following main characteristics:
* barrel length - 700 mm;
* muzzle constriction - 1 mm;
Cartridge 12/20/70, bullet “GUALANDI”, 32 gr
* charge weight - 2.05 g;
* gunpowder - M92S
P1 (bar) 680.8
Cartridge 12/20/70, bullet "Gualbo", 28.5 gr
* charge weight - 2.15 g;
* gunpowder - MV36
P1 (bar) 693.5
Hunkil 13-08-2008 14:09
quote: For the erudite, the question is: why do they make the weight larger for a light bullet?
Look - the cartridges use different gunpowder!!!
Most likely, the combustion rates are different there.
GPMS 13-08-2008 16:39
quote: Originally posted by oleg_r:
For the erudite, the question is: why do they make the weight larger for a light bullet?
Not for choke shooting, but for a special function.
oleg_r 14-08-2008 16:42
quote: IMHO - the point is the progressive burning of gunpowder. The low weight of the charge will not accelerate a light projectile.
I think the same. The time it takes for a bullet to travel through the barrel is shorter, which means that to maintain constant pressure it is required or more gunpowder, or gunpowder with a higher burning rate.
As for shooting from a choke with 1.0 bullets, this weekend I’ll shoot 5-6 bullets from IZH-18
Main cartridge 12/70/20 "Gualandi" 32g gunpowder M92S 2.05g.
If I survive, then it’s possible...
oleg_r 17-08-2008 20:41
Overall results:
Fired 5 rounds of Glavpatron 12/70/20 CALIBER "Gualandi" 32g
IZH-18 EMM Chok 1.0
The first two are just to check - everything is fine.
It seems that the barrel heats up even less when firing a bullet.
The distance is 120 wide steps, which is approximately 80-85 meters.
Three more - for shooting.
I haven’t fired a bullet from this barrel before, so 2 sightings, 1 test.
The target - a 1.5 liter eggplant - was successfully hit.
A friend fired the same bullet from an MP-153 - it hit immediately.
The external notch stabilizes the bullet well. And, of course, the specific sound of a rotating bullet flying is something between sh-sh-sh... and wh-zh-zh-zh...
General conclusions with recommendations - you can shoot 1.0 caliber bullets from a choke:
- from barrels with a 76mm chamber and tested to a pressure of 918 (1050) bar
(in other words, for “magnum” cartridges) and NOT “magnum” (with a bullet up to 32-34 g)
- bullets that pass through the choke WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE DRIVING BELT
- any sub-caliber.
BOKER 17-08-2008 23:43
quote: Originally posted by Petrus:
does the bullet body pass through the muzzle constriction... does it pass - you can shoot. no - it's better not to take risks.
in my opinion, the most correct approach.
In general, a cylinder is better. If there is no cylinder, only the first option.
In my “permit” they talked for a long time about how the “Merkel” (remake) was written off, the owner fired with a caliber, through which - I won’t lie, but there was a standard set (chok-pay).
Half the barrel turned towards the head.
Android_13 20-08-2008 10:46
quote: In general, a cylinder is better
from practice - the best heap I got was a caliber bullet from a cylinder - that's a fact!
Gray66 20-08-2008 16:10
quote: from practice - the best heap I got was a caliber bullet from a cylinder - this is a fact
For me, everything is exactly the opposite. The best pile from the check (Saiga 20C).
And for some reason it’s a round bullet. Shot on Saturday various types bullets on different weights. The best result is a round bullet, Sunar-35 1.7g, distance 35m, a series of five, three holes touching, two 2-3 cm from the main pile.
BELOYAR 20-08-2008 20:49
good results.
all the details, please: sleeve, wads, gaskets...
BOKER 20-08-2008 23:45
Although I wouldn’t take risks at the shooting range.
Gray66 21-08-2008 10:36
quote: and the diameter and weight of the round bullet were...? and the method of equipment... ?
all the details, please: sleeve, wads, gaskets...
I didn’t measure the diameter, it pushes along the barrel of the gun with minimal effort, I can measure the weight, there are still bullets left. Ordinary companions purchased in the store. Record casings, all used, Sunar-35 gunpowder. Weights from 1.6 to 1.9. Cut-off Gualandi wad-concentrator, one and a half fiberboard wads, powder gasket, twist. The most “accurate” cartridges turned out to be those with 1.7 grams of gunpowder. Pin attachment. Collimator Thread-A, shot from the hands, or rather not entirely from the hands, but leaning with the left side and hand on the machine.
I also shot Vyatka, but I won’t use these bullets again. In front of the target I found a plastic stabilizer from Vyatka with a lead rod inside. The lead rod on which the stabilizer is attached broke off during the shot. Now I understand why when shooting Vyatka, sometimes you get completely wild breaks.
quote: I have a vague suspicion that it’s better not to go hunting with round bullets. The grown-up guys will pull your ears off right away.
Although I wouldn’t take risks at the shooting range.
I am already quite an old guy myself. I don’t take part in group hunts, it’s not my thing, I always hunt alone, or at most together. I use a round bullet for sighting, well, even when shooting at geese with high altitude.
For game hunting I use a homemade sub-caliber half-shell.
BELOYAR 21-08-2008 22:53
2 Gray66. I thought that Sputnik was for the rest of the information - thank you. just interesting. I shot round timber without belts as a “try” from a 20 magnum with self-propelled sub-caliber sub-calibers with a diameter of 15.05 mm from a half-choke, i.e. constriction diameter - 15.2 mm. I also cut the s/c and shortened the cup to half the diameter. but you need to weigh it for a complete picture. I made bullets from 14.2 mm (for 20-caliber sub-caliber) to 18.15 mm (for 12-caliber cylinder). more precisely, one multi-seater.
and the stabilizer could have been torn off when hit, for some reason I thought so. maybe because it wasn’t walking quite straight. Vyatka is also not my option, but you shouldn’t criticize it - many people really, really like it.
I’m also interested in the Nit-A collimator, if possible, please describe the details about installation and use in a private message. and about the sub-caliber half-shell too!
2 BOKER. There is no risk if you understand what you are doing. Only a round timber fanatic can go into the forest with such a bullet, and not even alone.
Gray66 22-08-2008 10:24
quote: and the stabilizer could have been torn off when hit, for some reason I thought so.
I found a stabilizer with a lead rod right in front of the target; on the lead rod it was clear that it had hit the ground. There was no way he could bounce back; he attached the target to a piece of chipboard half a meter above the ground.
In the 80-90s, I myself did not equip beast cartridges with anything other than Vyatka. But it was in 12 gauge. And in the 20th, no matter how old I get, Vyatka doesn’t fly well except at 1.4g Sokol.
Serge 1 10-09-2008 21:54
Shot from Izh-18 EM-M, 12-76, barrel 710, CHOC, weight 2.65 kg, plastic, knee rest, distance 50 m, Polev 1 bullets, Sokol charge 2.1 g. those. 0.2 less than on the can, I didn’t weigh or process the bullets, the recoil is high. The photo will be below. In the future I plan to shoot Polev 2, 3, 6, PPTs(E). If someone shot Polev from a choke, then how to vary the loads of the Falcon depending on the weight of the bullet?
Fishman_77 21-10-2008 18:37
but I bought a 32gr Gualandi caliber from Vetter for a cylinder with pressure (0.25 mm narrowing) and now I don’t know whether to cheat or not. on the package it is written that the manufacturer is not responsible for the consequences when shooting from barrels with choke constrictions
So now I’m wondering whether I need it or not... if everything is as cloudless and safe as they say here, then why does the manufacturer play it safe??
Serge 1 21-10-2008 22:58
During sighting and hunting, I shot Brenneke caliber from a pistol and from a choke. Everything is fine. Then he switched to Polev. Gualandi is no better than Polev, but much more expensive. But as they say, the master is the master. Good luck.
asoneofus 22-10-2008 15:22
asoneofus 28-10-2008 20:42
They also shoot with Diabla...
Fishman_77 03-11-2008 13:54
quote: They also shoot with Diabla...
if the shooter has sufficient skill, then the sub-caliber will be enough to kill the beast. and if not, then the caliber will not help
asoneofus 03-11-2008 14:14
quote: Originally posted by Fishman_77:
Well, you never know who’s shooting at what and where...
There are no crushable belts on the bullet. want to tear off the nozzles?? then go ahead...
for a muzzle constriction greater than 0.25 mm - only a sub-caliber bullet... no matter what anyone says... unless, of course, you treat your weapon with care. Well, if you change the barrels like gloves, then what to shoot at the drum.
if the shooter has sufficient skill, then the sub-caliber will be enough to kill the beast. and if not, then the caliber will not help
how is it not? Along the entire length there is a spiral belt - between the head and bottom.
It is written on the website: for narrowings up to mm, which means it is so.
The question is the balance: deterioration of the obturation due to abrasion and destruction of the obturating elements and loads on the barrel
PS By the way, what does this have to do with choke tubes? The point is that pressure is needed throughout the entire barrel, and not the barrel - the cylinder, and then a few cm nozzles... Such a scheme is of little use - only the meaning is “it will work or not: if I’m too lazy to screw it on” ...
mefistofel 03-11-2008 16:14
Sasha, your methods and theories of super-accurate shooting from a smooth surface are not accessible to ordinary people... just like obturation with a bullet... we have it with a seal... gaskets, etc. etc... not everyone is tired of the mega-cool you hire, not everyone can afford it
asoneofus 03-11-2008 16:38
Seryozha, the process is the same for wads: in a long pipe, wads provide obturation with a cylindrical profile? Well then there is no need for restrictions. So everything is Mitsuyan. And if not, then pressure is needed. For the most part, when the pressure is extreme, the bullets are heavy - it’s all the same, a little pressure is needed. We’re not even talking about super-duper things here, but about a real shot...
mefistofel 03-11-2008 16:45
I completely agree about the pressure along the barrel up to 0.7... but where can I get it... the only thing I heard... the barrel is forged on a weakened mandrel... beginning 18.5 end 18.2.. but “de jure” 18, 2 cylinder..
although a good seal that is tall, elastic and tight solves the problem quite...
asoneofus 03-11-2008 17:46
de facto we are fighting ... FOR 0.25 0.5 serial uniform narrowing
For Lienfa, it seems like 10.4 turns into 10.3 - the cone is the same, albeit weak
mefistofel 03-11-2008 18:09
By the way, you wrote that the enf is not rushing... the interest has been aroused again????
Lesha_641 03-11-2008 22:22
There is a “Vyatka” 12k bullet, weight 32.5 grams, it doesn’t hit the mark, can you tell me if it can be shot, narrow the choke and pay?
asoneofus 03-11-2008 22:43
You can’t shoot a Vyatka bullet at all...
And he didn’t miss the lienfu... everything in due time: restore, put in order, equipment... a lot of work.
mefistofel 03-11-2008 23:29
Vyatka can be used from anything... the body is hollow and the hefty ribs are easily crushed in the constrictions... I had Vyatka fly normally from a short cylinder 12k... but I haven’t shot it for a long time...
Lesha_641 03-11-2008 23:55
and how to equip it correctly? what is the sequence, how much gunpowder (Falcon) to pour?
mefistofel 04-11-2008 12:04
and how will it fly... start with 1.9, end with a reasonable limit of 2.4 if you don’t have a magnum... first twist the gunpowder, seal (can be from a PC or from a 16k plug; 1 piece cardboard powder solid gasket (insurance against breakthrough seal and overall structural strength) fibreboard, fibreboard... prokl... bullet twist...
or 1 dvp, prokl and star...
then you’ll develop your own recipes and techniques, it’s universal...
the bullet is capricious... you'll have to play with the equipment... especially with attachments... funny - my falcon doesn't fly with less than 2.2... I remember exactly... some barrels spit on it no matter what... some are the opposite they love... but the bullet is clearly no longer ice... it flies either terribly, or poorly, or satisfactorily... and occasionally with suitable guns and inquisitive minds it goes well (with a small letter in a whisper)
this is not gualandi.. which is either satisfactory if everything is completely bad (rare) or good or excellent
so if it’s something serious, it’s better instead of 2 Vyatkas to get 1 gualandi... if it’s a bang... then it’s too expensive to buy a bullet that costs half a gualandi for a bang - you have to pour it.... so everyone is against the Vyatka...
but for the sake of trying, then maybe... what if???
Lesha_641 04-11-2008 12:21
Yes, my old man gave me the rest of the luxury... equipment, 20 Vyatok, 50 polev1, 130 “French women” (that’s what he called them, but in fact it’s a 20k sharp bullet), 80 kg of shot... gunpowder... I left hunting myself, sold my rifle... age already... ph and cool
mefistofel 04-11-2008 12:34
a good inheritance... but don’t post a photo of a fine bullet here for 20k.. interesting....
asoneofus 04-11-2008 12:52
Vyatka - no matter what you say: it’s still guano... Seryoga is right, Vyatka and well - a very rare phenomenon... I translated almost 200 pieces to confirm this truth...
mefistofel 04-11-2008 02:02
Well, this is not a Frenchwoman, but a purebred Rubeykina... no options....
Lesha_641 04-11-2008 02:09
I don’t know, that’s what he called them... I’m afraid to shoot them... for now... I got the “Vyatka”... 2.2,_2.1,_2.0,_1.9 g falcon in a week I’ll shoot!
mefistofel 04-11-2008 02:27
them in the PC and that’s it... nothing to worry about...
asoneofus 04-11-2008 12:11
Any objections or additions?
mefistofel 04-11-2008 13:44
Nope... but about the holes from the key, well done... this is an evil that everyone forgets about... that's why external attachments are better than screws..
Fishman_77 04-11-2008 22:19
quote: So, some summary on the topic....
The optimal narrowing along the trunk (not due to nozzles) is up to 0.25 .. 0.5 mm depending on the length of the trunk.
Attachments on the cylinder (choke, half-choke) allow firing of almost all types of modern bullets (although it’s worth checking the manufacturer’s data: just in case) but do not lead to any significant effects.
At the same time, the attachments should not have a key slot - which affects the bullet fight.
Any objections or additions?
will
I completely agree with the first statement. But as for the attachments, I’m categorically against it. If someone wants to naughty with a bullet, unscrew the nozzle and go ahead. this is what the cylinder is made for and there’s no point in reading what the manufacturers write (and they, by the way, warn that they are not responsible for firing a bullet in the presence of choke constrictions). if drilling the barrel itself implies the presence of a narrowing, then I can still understand. It’s like you can’t unscrew anything there and you have to shoot with what you have. Well, if the attachment is removable, then why advise people to force weapons?? things must be treated with care and understanding
mefistofel 04-11-2008 23:15
Dear... now open your brain and think why I wrote about VERTYSHY and not VERTYSHY??? and because, having twisted the screw, we have a purebred cylindrical barrel without steps, transitions and various thresholds... but screws with a cylinder will no longer give this... and when you need a narrowing, both screws and screws are the same
p.sy.: the screws are external replaceable attachments - ala saiga
screws internal..
No one is suggesting that people force weapons...
Do you need to be more careful or is there not enough professionalism??
Fishman_77 04-11-2008 23:41
quote: but screwdrivers with a cylinder won’t do this anymore...
Well, great... screw on the nozzle, load a sub-caliber bullet and off we go....
I only advocate not agitating people for shooting caliber bullets from barrels with muzzle attachments... and here it doesn’t matter at all whether they are internal or external
asoneofus 05-11-2008 01:44
Hmm... what the fuss didn’t understand
For a reasonable person, “do not lead to any significant effects” is considered as “why force it, I’ll screw on the attachments out of harm’s way” ... well, or “why screw it up for the sake of a series... it’s a chore, and there’s no key - let’s stand it.” ..
And there's no need to swear...
So, summary:
- Optimal narrowing along the trunk (not due to nozzles) is up to 0.25 .. 0.5 mm depending on the length of the trunk.
- Attachments for the cylinder (choke, half-choke) - allow firing of almost all types of modern bullets (although it’s worth checking the manufacturer’s data: just in case) but do not lead to any significant effects. For bullet shooting, it is recommended to remove the attachments.
- At the same time, the nozzle should not have a key slot - which affects the bullet fight. Some turnkey slots have a “correct” convergence - special processing, groove - which creates a smooth round step along the circumference of the cut of the bullet exit
- The DTK should be tested for “correctness” - some do a lot of mischief by changing the trajectory of the bullet (and the sheaf of shot is also deflected and changed)
Vitaly M 05-11-2008 02:11
So I thought it was a dark topic, but with my poverty I couldn’t understand it. Brothers, be kind, post at least one photo of the barrels with which they fired caliber bullets, which are now being made in factories, whether with a regiment or with a choke, with which at least something happened... Not with those torn due to being clogged with snow/earth, but with certificates and a valid cartridge, torn or badly blown.
Of course, I myself am a sinner, I once fired until the choke bloated on the 43rd IZhik, but there is almost no fault of mine, the breeder is a bastard, he put a cardboard ring on the bullet before twisting it, so it was more beautiful... but it was the cartridge’s fault for the blow .
And Gualandey and Grizzly Shashkovskys (whom I call faithful) I fired more than a hundred times from a muzzle with a narrowing of 1.17 mm and nothing happened to him, I just cleaned off the lead... So someone show me??? I look and believe... Do people understand what I mean???
mefistofel 05-11-2008 02:24
I also don’t see any problems with the constrictions and the bullet... a minimum of intelligence, etc. and everything is ok... but it’s not like breaking a barrel, and you can fucking do it... if you’re foolish...
and if not... 410 caliber, a caliber ball or an even steeper one along the barrel with a huge tension... and into the paradox and gv-shaped bullets come out of the ball after the paradox... and does a bullet with belts come out of it as if they were not there ... and thousands of shots were fired and no one got anything from what was written.... so what is often sci-fi... like Gualandi 32, choke 1.0... is complete nonsense, and hatred of one’s own nervous system...
asoneofus 05-11-2008 08:40
... Do people understand what I mean???
I didn’t understand at all, to be honest, like: did I write something wrong? Why then the rules on barrel narrowings?
Vitaly M 06-11-2008 23:51
quote: I don't understand at all
Well, to the point that not a single bullet currently sold in a ready-made cartridge will damage a single reference barrel... how it will fly is the question, but tearing/blowing it is not. And if it blows, it’s either the owner’s fault, he overlooked the absence of obstacles in the trunk, or he assembled the patrosh incorrectly... I think so.
asoneofus 07-11-2008 12:30
quote: Originally posted by Vitaly M:
Well, to the point that not a single bullet currently sold in a ready-made cartridge will damage a single reference barrel... how it will fly is the question, but tearing/blowing it is not. And if it blows, it’s either the owner’s fault, he overlooked the absence of obstacles in the trunk, or he assembled the patrosh incorrectly... I think so.